All a CIO and CTO needs to know about 5G, from Latency to Network Slicing

Samuel Navarro
Director, Customer Strategic Solutions Division, ITC at the GSA
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In today’s episode we’ll cover:

  • What’s important to understand about 5G from Latency to Network Slicing
  • Why it matters for the U.S. to be a leader when it comes to 5G wireless technology
  • What CIOs and CTOs need to know now about 5G today
  • We talk about the Top 5 Enterprise Use Cases for 5G
  • Samuel's thoughts on the future of telemedicine in the context of 5G
  • Samuel talks about Las Vegas as a smart city, and the private 5G network the city is building out right now. Sam breaks down what “slice the network” and the possibilities are for 5G when it comes to the future of smart cities.


*Transcript generated by Descript

[00:00:00] Sam Navarro: [00:00:00] It's a great question, Joe. And I think CIO today not only stands for chief information officer, you're the chief innovation officer also  and I think as CIOs, they have to understand what are the use cases they're trying to enable and, we'll get into Vegas and San case scenario in one end.

Where their CIO out there Mike Sherwood what is a true visionary.

Joe Toste: [00:00:24] Welcome to TechTables conversations with top technology leaders, taking a closer look at the world of IT and digital through the lens of agility and innovation. I'm your host, Joe Toste. 

 I'm super excited today. As we shift our focus to all things GSA, that's the general services administration of the United States and public sector with Samuel Navarro. Samuel is a director leading new 5g and telecom innovation in the public sector. Huge thank you to Samuel for taking time to come on the show.

  Joe Toste: [00:00:47] We're going to cover. What's important to understand about 5g from latency to network slicing, why it matters for the U S to be a leader when it comes to 5g wireless technology, what CIO's, and CTO's need to understand about 5g [00:01:00] today. We'll talk about the top five enterprise use cases for 5g Samuel's thoughts on the future of telemedicine in the context of 5g and Samuel talks about.

Las Vegas is a smart city and the private 5g network, the city's building out right now. He breaks down what slice the network and the possibilities are for 5g when it comes to the future of smart cities. But that's quite enough for me without further ado. I'm thrilled to welcome Samuel Navarro, director of customer solutions, divisions, and it at the GSA.

Sam, thank you for coming on tech tables. I'm super excited that you are here this morning. 

Sam Navarro: [00:01:33] Hey, thanks for having me. And thanks to your listeners for taking the time out to hear what we have to talk about today. 

Joe Toste: [00:01:39] I know I'm really excited about this episode. So let's kick off a little bit about you, your, your history with Telekom in the U S army, then the GSA, along with the exciting work in 5g, let's kick it off 

Sam Navarro: [00:01:50] there.

Sure.  To be honest, I was one of the guys that was a non-techie to begin my career in technical, but the U S military gave me an [00:02:00] opportunity and I started off as an information technology specialist for the army enlisted. Where we went to multiple areas where wireless was necessary to connect, right?

If you're in the middle of the desert, best way to do it as sad satellite or line of sight.  That kind of began my journey and my experience with wireless communications. And as my career progressed and evolved, I found myself here at GSA and working more on the business side of technology. I was the mobile program manager for a couple of years.

And we were able to grow the business and something hit the market out of nowhere, right? This a mysterious technology people now call 5g. And it had a lot of promise and there were a lot of aspirations of this technology government and private sector of things that it was going to do to revolutionize our world.

From there. Now I've taken on a larger role to not only think about the wireless mobile aspect of technology here [00:03:00] at GSA and supporting the government, but how does it incorporate into total customer strategic solutions? So now I'm the director of customer strategic solutions division here at GSA, the information technology category.

And I'm super excited about the future. Just through this pandemic, we've seen a lot of. Great use cases of how it's helped the government do its work and also how we've been able to serve our citizens. And 

Joe Toste: [00:03:26] we're going to dive in to those use cases in a little bit. I really liked, I think the piece that I really liked about your history was.

You're out in the field with the army. You can't exactly take an ethernet cord and plug it in. And so there's a real problem, right? You understand, there's a real problem. And now you're applying it at the GSA both from a technology and business standpoint. Which I think is exactly where you need to be, because there is a real problem and 5g offers a real solution.

What we call 5g offers a real solution. [00:04:00] So for the uninitiated, can you describe, what's important to understand about 5g from latency to network slicing and the market and the potential that 5g brings to the world today. 

 Sam Navarro: [00:04:12] And what's important about it, right? Everybody wants to know the whiff of what's in it for me.

And so there's definitely many different angles. There's multi multidimensions of this thing. As you alluded to Joe, when it comes to Baiji from an economic perspective, a social perspective and a technological perspective, which we'll dive in. And I tell you that GSA, we're looking at all foreigners off assets because.

The customers have, for example, the social security administration, those folks are our customers as well. The customers of our agencies are our customers. And looking at this team from various angles, we want to make sure that we have the right solutions, the right products available so that we could deliver for the taxpayer from an economic perspective, look, USA.

We led [00:05:00] 4g and we saw the impact. We saw the jobs. We saw the innovation. We saw all of the progress it's brought right just in the last year to this year, our 4g networks are already super saturated. So if not for anything else, we're going to need the Mo the broader bandwidth, just to meet the demand.

Everybody's going mobile. I know folks who don't even use landlines anymore. It's like Verizon. Folks are trying to still provide those offerings, but the world is moving in a different direction and that ties into the social aspect. We got another nother generation of folks who probably never seen a chord line phone.

I've even seen some memes with millennials, with rotary phones. They don't know how to use them. That's because there's been a shift in the way we communicate. A lot of folks do everything through their smartphones and that's tied to the wireless network. And then last but not least the technological edge, america's been known. And what it means for us and the importance for us from a technological [00:06:00] perspective is an innovation, right? Continuing to innovate, and also in getting access to the network, access to information out, even to rural areas, right?  We're reaching a pace of technological innovation and digitization that communities that don't have access to the network.

Are really going to be left behind. It's not having utilities, right? If we think of it today as unthinkable to have a city or location or some farm town place in the middle of nowhere that doesn't have electricity or water. So it's, government's prerogative to make sure or we have a equal opportunity for all Americans.

And so we're looking at it is from standards to security, to what are the right policies. What are the use cases we want to enable as well? And then last but not least the acquisition, how to best procure it. And in government's case procure it to scale. We buy a lot of whatever too, so [00:07:00] we want to make sure we buy it the right way.

Joe Toste: [00:07:02] Yeah. I thought that was, you said something earlier. That was really great. With the landlines.  Cox communication. They're the dominant wireless provider and I'm right now actually setting up a recording studio in my house. And they're trying to give me a landline, but they'll give me a discount on my wireless.

They want to give me this box. And I was trying to tell the guy, I don't need a landline. I have a iPhone has five G on it. And. He's but it's going to save you every month. You're going to get like 20 bucks off. I'm like, okay, just give me the phone. But I'm telling you I'm not using this. 

Sam Navarro: [00:07:43] It goes in the top 

Joe Toste: [00:07:44] closet and gets hidden away.


Sam Navarro: [00:07:46] It's a dinosaur and you see it in these packages Hey, we'll give you the triple play and part of the triple play, and I know as a millennial I'm seeking,  what are you going, give me, are you gonna be able to sell on the smartphone, right? Or are you going to give me A tethering capability, right?

A [00:08:00] mi-fi, what's in the deal. And then they say landline and you're like, that's as, as useful as a third elbow. So exactly. I think that generational speaking, what's crazy is I was just reading an article that was saying even the telephone number is going to eventually be a thing of the patents.

Cause when you think about it now, folks. Can communicate through social media. I could literally look up Joe on Facebook, and I can connect with you via voice or now even video right through through our mobile devices and, quite frankly, the interface now to things like that is going to be cooler.

Thought I saw Prada by Vodafone called Nebula where now you're. Glasses are going to be like a smartphone, but on your head, where literally you could say to your glasses one day, Joe, just, Hey, call Sam. And literally I are here in front of you. If we're in the same room, hanging out, thinking about how awesome that would be for a foreign team, right?

[00:09:00] Joe Toste: [00:08:59] Yeah. There's I think not in the first generation, but Apple's working on some Apple glasses right now. So I think as they iterate on those, I would love to say Siri, call Sam. The only issue would be then the seven or eight series in my house would then I'll ask me to start. They would just start calling you'd get eight calls from eight different three devices, iPads, phones, my Apple TV, all that funny stuff.

So 5g is touted as a game changer in the world of communication, Verizon CEO, he's on stage he's promoting. Why does it matter for the U S to be a leader when it comes to 5g wireless technology? 

Sam Navarro: [00:09:38] And one aspect, we just talked about economic, another aspect isn't as sexy and appealing, and folks don't want to talk about it, but it really boils down to the security.

And I think that one of the great things about the U S is we enjoy civil liberties here and it's ingrained in our culture, that nobody ever asks. Is it a good [00:10:00] thing to have free speech or the fourth amendment and things like that right here. And I think what we, the freedoms that we enjoy in this country are tied to the way we create our technology, the way we create products, the way our companies are operated as well.

And so really security is in Joe understanding and having. The assurance that when he's on the network is data is protected. It's not being manipulated by third parties or using it in the fairies. Can we get to a point where we can trust the network to a certain degree? We understand that any era, any, and everything that's connected, right?

You can only mitigate risk, we're trying to lead the ed the way to make sure that. There's opportunity to create a network that is to a certain degree secure for the consumer. And then also we want to make sure that also  the us is leading to make sure that it's a game changer.

[00:11:00] Not only for the people in, like we said, metropolitan areas, but it's a game changer for the people in rural America. And when you think about the social impacts, the city of Las Vegas has done a Kirk incredible job with next generation wireless technology, where now people who are in the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder have access to internet, free of charge. And we're thinking about how we can leverage the efficiencies and the ubiquity, which means it's going to be everywhere in the network. So we could give everyone connectivity. That's a big deal. And then last but not least, we want to say in the standards of the network and 3g, PP is the body right now, that's putting all the standards and are doing the releases of what things mean in 5g.

We want to make sure that the us plays a role in making sure that those standards are fair for everyone. And that it's an even playing field. As far as the [00:12:00] industry participation is concerned. So there's a lot at stake, right? The future network that we're all gonna rely on, it is going to literally have more things on it than ever before smart cities, to education, to telehealth and telemedicine.

All these things are going to ride on this network. We need to make sure that as a country, we stay on top of it. So that, that network eventually serves the consumer and the American people at the end. 

Joe Toste: [00:12:29] Yeah, no, that's really great. And I think what speaks is education, right? There's a lot of kids now.

They're not in school if they're fortunate enough. They've I know some kids, they have iPads or Chromebooks or whatever they're using, but you need to hook up to a network. And. On zoom, I think what's important too. Is we, we have wifi at our house, but I didn't know. You get capped.

We got capped at 1.2, five terabytes, but you go how do you cap, how do you cap out at over a terabyte a month? [00:13:00] And you learn as my wife is a professor and she, the school requires. Them to be on zoom for nine hours a day. So just imagine that. So I'm hopping on the Verizon network when I'm home to to stream when I'm on zoom, when I'm on zoom calls.

Cause we're out of wifi. The infrastructure is going to be really 

Sam Navarro: [00:13:19] right. And I think we could tell our age a little bit here, with think about field trips right back in the day, that slid bone. So your mom and dad, they had a sign. Pay the 35 bucks for the lines.

And think about that will eventually potentially would be a thing of the past with things like augmented reality enabled by 5g, we know the Smithsonian, which is a great place to go and visit and learn about science history, et cetera. And it's free for the American people, but it's not accessible for everyone.

Not everyone can afford to take a trip across country. And actually go see the Smithsonian. So imagine having a virtual experience where you go see this Missoni right, [00:14:00] but all from the comfort of your home and students have the ability to go see a Rome and the Colosseum and with augmented and virtual reality, it's if you're there, et cetera, it's reconstructed and you're seeing a gladiator fight, or you can go see gaze got his bird, then augmented reality can enable you to see a. The fight a little bit more, for example, in general Meade and his troops, defending the perimeter, it's it enables so many other things and it enhances the experience like never before. And takes a lot of the barriers from doing those things.

Like back in, in our day, we had to get on the big yellow bus, and go and actually see these places. Now it's not only a 2d experience, 5g can enable that three 3d 4d experience where you actually feel like you're there. You actually feel like you've actually had the experience right.

Without all the hassle of the travel and the expense. And. [00:15:00] And the a peanut butter and jelly sandwich smashed in your backpack. 

Joe Toste: [00:15:03] Oh yeah. We love that. Peanut butter and jelly.

Yeah. I love that. So CAS, I'm curious what do CIO's and CTO's and other technology C-suite executives need to know about 5g today? 

Sam Navarro: [00:15:18] It's a great question, Joe. And I think CIO today not only stands for chief information officer, you're the chief innovation officer also, right? And I think as CIOs they have to understand what are the use cases they're trying to enable and, we'll get into Vegas and San case scenario in one end, right?

Where their CIO out there Mike Sherwood what is a true visionary. And he's enabled certain use cases that are provided tremendous value for his city. But what about the CIO is for JP Morgan? What about the CIO is for an academic institution as we just discussed? What are the use cases that they're trying to enable?

And I think this is a [00:16:00] great opportunity to think outside of the box. And then secondly, I think for those of us who are a little bit hesitant, and I get it wireline. There was, and having the legacy that work in place, there were certain control, right? It was my network, but we have to understand 5g.

It's common. It's a real thing. It's proliferating around our world and you have to get on the bandwagon now. And here's why I think there's two things that CIO is definitely need to take into consideration one. What's your threat posture, if you're selling hamburgers. Maybe it's not a bad thing.

If someone gets a hand, a hold of your secret recipe for your hamburger patties. But if you're dealing with financial information, there's legislation that protects them, if you're dealing with people's health information or banking information, that then you're in a different realm where you're liable and there's risks.

If. The information is vulnerable, [00:17:00] right to attack. So I think right now, while this is getting ramped up as a great time as a CIO or CTO, to figure out what your threat posture is, and then what's your organization's tolerance for risk, right? Every organization has to deal with that. There's a cost to increasing security capabilities.

Not only from a dollars perspective, but from an availability perspective also. And then also understanding what are the security controls that I need to put in place, start. Speak and depending on what flavor of 5g, which we'll talk about private LT capabilities or private 5g capabilities with Las Vegas, there's different security controls for that.

Then if you're waiting for Verizon or at, and T or your local carrier, To bring the network to you, right? Bring millimeter wave to you. That's another kind of ball of wax there that I think at this time is [00:18:00] a great time to sit down with your team. If you're a CIO or CTO and really look into it.

Just two more things. I think NIST has put some great guidance out there through their special publications. Sessa, which is a cybersecurity infrastructure security agency for the government. They're a great, I think advisor for American companies and academia and the private sector, where they're not trying to control necessarily what you're doing, but they could give, they have put out some great guidance, some great studies on the technology.

That can be a great foundation for where you guys want to go as an organization. So Sam, 

Joe Toste: [00:18:40] I was reading an article titled mapping demand, the enterprise 5g opportunity on Nokia's website, where they interviewed over a thousand. It professionals the top five enterprise use cases. They listed included video monitoring and detection, connected machinery, fixed wireless access, connected vehicles, immersive [00:19:00] experiences.

I'm curious, what are some of your favorite 5g use cases today? 

Sam Navarro: [00:19:03] Yeah, I would have to agree some of the use cases that massive IOT is enabling are incredible from that. And some, that you listed on that list are near and dear to me, but I got agreed to, it looks going on in the world of medicine and what 5g is going to be able to enable moving forward is going to be incredible.

Think about this Joe, every time we go to the doctor's office, It's just a snapshot right? Of your meds, your blood pressure and your blood work, it's a snapshot in time based off of what the machines calculate or what your doctor calculates in that time. Think about how now telemedicine can literally have a continuous diagnostic monitoring capability for Joe, hey, Joe ate too much chocolate cake this week. That's probably not a good thing. Especially if you have a history in your family [00:20:00] have diabetes, and that's something that can be talked about in your next doctor's office, or, as you're brushing your teeth, right?

Your your toothbrush now can become a capability that now takes a sample saliva sample and analyzes it, and then stores it, that data as well to give you a continuous diagnostic of how you're doing health wise and even probably detect diseases before they become more severe. And then last but not least, I think what it's enabling within hospitals, we talked about Palo Alto and the VA hospital out there enabling and bringing in private 5g LT to that.

To the hospital. Now, literally you can have the best surgeons, either operate on you from the other side of the planet and, or provide that surgeon. Who's doing the procedure on you, guidance on what he's seeing, what he's looking at in real time, lowly and see provides us the ability to do that. So I'm huge on a big fan on [00:21:00] tele-health telemedicine and then smart cities.

I think us working with Las Vegas, it's been incredible in GSA. We're an enabler to give people access to that kind of technology. So if their CIO is from cities and municipalities that are chiming in, please reach out to us. We've seen incredible innovation in the city of Las Vegas, and it's all been enabled by 5g compatible technology.

Think about the uses and first responders now being able to look at and diagnose challenge problems that are going on in the city. At real time and get people to react quickly. And the efficiencies in that right now, it decreases your patrols and, which decreases the consumption of gas for vehicles and things of that nature also with sanitation.

And there's two things that sanitation, I think we all think about how to take out the trash, which, I think our city IOT capability is going to enable. The city to be smarter on how we do [00:22:00] that and go about getting rid of trash. But I think about sensory technology being used, things as such as our water systems,  when you look at scenarios like Flint, Michigan, right?

I think the outrage wasn't necessarily that the water was at a level that was. Below pottable consumable levels. But it was the time it took for the local municipality to actually respond. I think that outrage was folks had to actually get sick for eventually someone to do something about the scenario.

And when you think about 5g and IOT in the future, What a advantage. It would be right to have sensors in the system where it would say, Hey today, maybe something has an infected. The water or water HP levels have gotten too high. And then having sensors tied to school. To school, water fountains to let folks know whether the water is safe or not in real time, [00:23:00] and being able to then have municipality correct that relatively quickly.

So it's really been enabling a lot of use cases within the smart city perspective that I think has the ability to save lives. Avoid, risk with certain utilities that our cities are responsible for and really bring value to this innocent. 

Joe Toste: [00:23:24] I love that. So I want to back up, you were talking about tele-health being important and near and dear to your heart.

My Maxim, my brother-in-law is a doctor. He's a spinal surgeon. Just published yesterday in the Harvard business review re-imagining medical conferences for a virtual setting. They don't talk about 5g, but obviously you can apply the 5g concepts, not only to conferences, but even to medical equipment and things like that.

When he's in the hospital operating, I think the future, even at the time, virtual reality, augmented [00:24:00] reality, 3d procedural simulation. This is all stuff that I'm sure the Palo Alto. Medical center is doing. I think this is going to be a game changer, especially in the tele-health side. I think what's popular is like Teladoc the app on the consumer side.

But I think on actually really helping doctors 5g is going to really enable. More and more physicians and doctors to be able to perform surgeries, access to physical equipment that they have, that, that they will actually be able to use when they operate on. So I love that's near and dear to your heart.

I'm actually trying to get him on for the podcast because I want to hear, I'm not too familiar. I've never, I sit down with him sometimes, but I really want to interview him from his procedure and the type of equipment he uses. I really want to dive into the detail. So I'm looking forward to that. Yeah.

Sam Navarro: [00:24:53] And that bed see you there. It'd be a very interesting podcast, I think Joe, to tune into, [00:25:00] because I think he would admit also that kind of a factor of medicine, the human component, like it is in every occupation. And there's always human error and what we see by it by the 5g and is how it's enabled kind of the mitigation, I guess you could say, right?

Error human risks throughout surgery and identifying. Disease. One of the interesting case studies that came out of the Mayo clinic was how quickly medical experts now were able to identify cancer like lung cancer than they were before by taking a snapshot or a radio x-ray of someone's lung.

And then running it through an AGI capability, which is enabled to, faster speeds on the network. And then getting results based on over a hundred stash shots of lung cancer that have been uploaded to an algorithm. And so think about that. How many lives now? And they were writing about how many lives now that could say, because [00:26:00] now do without one or two stage ones that wouldn't be able to be captured by your normal physician.

Now are being captured by a, an algorithm that has over a hundred different x-rays that have been already taken and have been positive. And can stare and compare that now to your results to make sure that it captures whatever you may have sooner than later. So I'd be really interested in hearing, how potentially that it's mitigated the risks right.

Of the human error, because doctors are human. Like we all are in surgeries, but identifying. Diseases as well, how it could be life-saving I think is a great conversation to have for the public. 

Joe Toste: [00:26:43] Shout out to my brother-in-law Vanu I will be asking him that question when when I get it, I texted him yesterday.

I said, you need to come on my podcast. He said he's in. So 

Sam Navarro: [00:26:51] just condensed a bit, right? Yeah, 

Joe Toste: [00:26:53] exactly. Exactly. So let's actually talk about, you mentioned the Las Vegas as a [00:27:00] smart city. And the private 5g network, the city's building out right now, let's break down what it means to slice the network. And what are the possibilities for 5g when it comes to the future of smart cities?

 Sam Navarro: [00:27:11] And we got ahold of the folks out in Las Vegas when through relationships, combine relationships, we have the same vendors that other municipalities and States leverage on our vehicles. And then they've engaged as well. And it was very interesting when they were first building it out.

Because as I said before, I think Mike Sherwood who's, their CIO started out first with the vision and he first started out with a couple of very simple use cases. And from there rolled out to the opportunities to do network slicing and leverage other options of the technology. I could tell you that.

This is really where there's a fork in the road, Joe. Cause I think some folks may be more in a holding pattern [00:28:00] until Verizon or their local carrier can get millimeter wave to their location. Where others are taken advantage of private 5g capabilities like they are and they're leveraging.

And some people may say there's challenges with spectrum, right? And they're well, Las Vegas is a case in point where they're leveraging what we call citizen band radio services, a spectrum to deploy the technology and for it to contribute to their. To their city immediately. And but what we see is, as you said, whether you go private or whether you wait for your local carrier to bring it to you, slicing has been very interesting.

And in particular, in the world of dual use concepts, right? And when government talks about dual use concepts is how can we use the network? Not only for private sector uses. But for the government as well. And so how do we make sure that first responders though, their traffic doesn't interfere with Joe and what Joe is doing, watching Netflix or whatever,  his traffic doesn't interfere with first responders, [00:29:00] and network slicing is the way we're doing that. And what that enables is the different QoS or quality of service. Capabilities that we put on Netflix and YouTube and all the traffic that folks are doing in their own time. We put different quality of service restrictions on those. And we would on first responder activity, right then we would on industry activity.

And as other use cases come online and other industries come online on the network. It's gotta be even better because think about if Elon Musk. Bill's the next Tesla factory next door right now for him to come online and to operate all his robotics and the mechanics in that factory. He doesn't have to spend a lot of money now on this big network and run a lot of wire and a lot of infrastructure.

It's as easy as turning it on, giving him his own slice. And then that traffic doesn't interfere with my Netflix. I don't want anything to interfere [00:30:00] with my, 

Joe Toste: [00:30:00] and that's what, and that's what Texas is hoping for right now, right? 

Sam Navarro: [00:30:04] Yeah. 

James Carbary: [00:30:05] It's in the works. I hear it's official, right? 

Joe Toste: [00:30:07] Yep. Yeah.

It's official. And he moved out of California. He's gone he's out. So I like this concept of network. Slicing actually just did a podcast interview with an executive at Verizon. And this is, we literally had this same time. He works on the public sector side on their first responder Verizon app. And this is the same thing, right?

You don't want your Netflix being interrupted. You're watching stranger things. You're watching tiger King. I don't know if some people do they're into tiger King. And and then you don't you want to be able to help the first responders because every second counts. And so that's really that mission critical piece of the network that you want to have available that isn't interfering with other.

Consumer type things weighing on it. 

 Sam Navarro: [00:30:52] And think about from a government perspective, the way we get funded is through taxes. So [00:31:00] it's a lot cheaper now for us to deploy the things we need to deploy in case of a hurricane or in case we need to provide other citizens services. Now we're using the same network you're using just we're on a different slides, right?

So we need less taxes to do the same thing. Taxpayer's happy, government's happy. Cause we can make sure we meet our obligations to the citizens and it creates more efficiencies all around. It's really a good deal. 

Joe Toste: [00:31:27] Yeah. I love it. And we pay a lot of taxes in California.  So I got to wrap up.

I got two wrap-up questions. The first one I didn't give to you beforehand, I gave you one of them. But what's your number one leadership lesson that the audience can take away. 

Sam Navarro: [00:31:44] Great question. And I think my number one leadership question, and in particularly when it comes to technology is meeting the customer or meeting the people where they're at,  it was a great experience to work with Las Vegas. They have a lot of engineers and they have a lot of [00:32:00] great people in their staff. But working with other municipalities, they're sometimes at a disadvantage, right? Especially in our rural areas, let's be honest resource to a lot of the subject matter expertise, et cetera is not necessarily there.

And so from a GSA perspective and us leading the charge on modernization, Across the government, state, local, and Laurie, we're interested in helping federal agencies as well is making sure, are there managed services that they can use, were folks who with the right subject matter expertise can come in and talk to them right.

And break it down in a manner that works for them. And I think leadership is about having that emotional intelligence in the end. And being, and having that empathy. Having that empathy on. How can I help Joe as a taxpayer? See the dividends and the taxes that we're collecting on his behalf to, for national defense, for health, to keep his food [00:33:00] safe, the folks in FDA and not only foods and drugs safe to keep the skies and the planes flying on time and things of that nature. It's really coming to the table with that level of empathy. And at the end of the day, that's what our systems build. We have the privilege and advantage in this country of having a free market and free markets, all about entrepreneurs, getting out there, figuring out how they are products could solve a problem or a need for someone else.

So we're in the business of, from a leadership perspective, bringing up with the bringing awareness of challenges and trying to meet those challenges for citizens. Love 

Joe Toste: [00:33:38] it. Okay. And what's the nicest thing someone has done for you? 

Sam Navarro: [00:33:41] Whoa. All right. TIS the season, right? 

Joe Toste: [00:33:46] The season. That's right.

Sam Navarro: [00:33:48] So professionally or personally, because I have actually a lot of, I'll be honest. I'm a blessed guy, a lot of people, 

 Joe Toste: [00:33:55] You could do both. You could do one, I'll leave it up to you. 

Sam Navarro: [00:33:58] Okay. All right. So [00:34:00] I'll have to say personally, I'll have to take something that just happened recently. So it was my job to get the Turkey ready for Thanksgiving this year, which my wife has found out.

And this was the only year we'd been married now for seven years. This was the only year. It was my job for some odd reason to make sure that it's hurricane was thought, I didn't know. You had to leave it out for three days. Lesson learned and that's something 5g can do for you guys. Okay. Can't get turkeys ready for you now.

Maybe it can Joe. But my neighbor went out, bought me a thawed Turkey. Not only bought it for me, cooked it for me and had it for me ready by Thanksgiving day. Free of charge. Who's 

Joe Toste: [00:34:40] your neighbor. What? 

Sam Navarro: [00:34:42] I'll send you an email just, and we have a house it's a for sale near rye. So just in case you're thinking about changing locale, but that's something that tech and we're just talking about empathy, right?

That's something that the technology in and of itself can't do. And thinking about this time of the season, [00:35:00] how can we leverage technology? Whether it's on social media or other places in our lives, to bless other people to do something nice for someone else. And then I think her professionally.

The nicest thing someone has ever done for me was what I joked first joined the military. I'll be honest with you, Joe. I had no aspirations of going to college at first. I came from a blue collar, a family, right? Where you clock in, you clock out, you, you bring a lunch pail to work and you hit things hard and then you go home and the nicest thing.

My immediate supervisor did for be Sergeant Hughes, which is now retired. And we actually live here in Virginia together and we stay in contact. But he was the first person that told me, look, you got to go. There's no option, you just got to do it. So he incentivized me and he found ways to, as a leader, ensure that I was staying in the books and I was getting the [00:36:00] grades and I owe not only a bachelor's, but he then instilled that in me to where I continued and got my master's afterwards, thanks to him and his leadership.

And he was right. Once I went out to the workforce, I was like, wow, thank you, Sergeant juice. And it's paid dividends tremendously. So professionally and personally, and those are just one out of many. But it does keep in mind. Joe, we got to pay it forward. We got to find the next knucklehead who doesn't want to go to college and force them to get some classes.

And we got to find the next knucklehead who doesn't thought Turkey, right for him. 

Joe Toste: [00:36:36] Yeah. No, I love those. I love those stories. I was a knucklehead in high school. I was messing around at left and right. Had been. All I thought about was playing basketball is the only thing. And now it's I actually volunteer at the same high school.

I went to coaching basketball on the JV team, which is really fun. And so before COVID, when we'd have the bus rides and that was a real thing. You get to have a conversation with the kids. You're like, [00:37:00] dude, you're going to go to college in the next, like two years. And they're like, what? And it's just, so it's funny, it's a net.

That's like the opportunity and I have the same answer to it. Yeah. You're a junior you're like you thinking about college. You're like, what? So yeah, it's good. It's good. You need to pay it forward. And yeah, I definitely love working with the high school guys. So where can people find you to hang out on LinkedIn?

Twitter? Where's your spot, Sam. So 

Sam Navarro: [00:37:22] I've definitely got to promote GSA for for Twitter. 

Joe Toste: [00:37:26] Promote them. 

Sam Navarro: [00:37:27] So we're at GSA at USA. I think it's our Twitter handle for Twitter. I'll verify with you and I'll send you that. But yeah I'm on LinkedIn as well. Samuel Navarro. So feel free to send me a connection and sure.

That's really I'm trying to limit while I'm on the gram also. As Sam wise, from Lord of the rings, but but yeah, I try to learn my social media these days. It's just, it's.  You got to see which ones add the most value. So I love [00:38:00] pictures and I love work. So those are the two ones that I 


Joe Toste: [00:38:04] love it.

Yeah. You S GSA on Twitter, just followed live. Took my phone out. I actually always keep my phone away from me when I record podcasts, but I was able to reach it. So I'm to, I'm going to just follow the GSA on Twitter right now. Going to tag the GSA once once this episode gets released, we'll have to connect on the gram and yeah, this is awesome.

It's a super fun. Thank you for coming on tech table, Sam. Yeah, for 

Sam Navarro: [00:38:28] sure. And just a quick shout out. So folks could get on that Twitter handle 180 different federal initiatives are going on with 5g. GSA is plugged into all of them. So I think it's a great source. I think our comms team does an incredible team job in keeping it up to speed with a lot of our content.

Thank you for having me again, Joe. Hopefully everyone has found a value in what we've discussed and looking forward to everyone reaching out. Thank you everyone. 

James Carbary: [00:38:55] If you are interested in seeing what Navarro a digital product engineering company that [00:39:00] excels at solving complex business challenges through agility and innovation can do for your company.

You can email Joe at Joe dot  that's T O S T E at  dot com or message Joe on LinkedIn. For all information on the Gorrow checkout nagarro.com. That's in a G a R O. Dot com you've been listening to the tech tables podcast to make sure you never miss an episode. Subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player.

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Sam Navarro: [00:39:45] dot com.

James Carbary: [00:39:46] That's in a G a R 

Sam Navarro: [00:39:48] o.com. And of 

James Carbary: [00:39:49] course you can find Joe Tasi, your podcast host on LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram. Joe's. Last name is T O S T E. Thanks for listening. . 

Joe Toste
Joe Toste
Host of TechTables Podcast

Host of TechTables 🎙- Conversations with Top Technology Leaders